Ice Stone

[Kaya]

So Shoki asked me about it in the cbox and I thought I'd present my initial findings in a thread for easy viewing.

Additionally, we are a fantasy role play and have birds that heal people by singing. Just saying.

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In the canon of Dragonriders of Pern, it is said that Firestone is a phosphine bearing rock.

As per Wikipedia,

Phosphine is the compound with the chemical formula PH3. It is a colorless, flammable, toxic gas.

Dragons, like their fire-lizard ancestors, can breathe fire by chewing a phosphine-bearing rock, called "firestone" in the novels, which reacts with an acid in a special "second stomach" organ. This forms a volatile gas that can be exhaled at will and ignites upon contact with air. The flame is used to burn Thread from the sky before it reaches the ground. However, the chewed firestone must be expelled from the body after it is used up, for the dragons cannot digest it.

The wikipedia page on Phosphines also lists them as a fire diamond health hazard 4 (the highest rating "very deadly"), which let me tell you as a chemist is something that I would do a lot to avoid coming into contact with. It's classified as Highly flammable (F+), Very toxic (T+), Corrosive (C), and Dangerous for the environment (N).

Overexposure to phosphine gas causes nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, diarrhea; thirst; chest tightness, dyspnea (breathing difficulty); muscle pain, chills; stupor or syncope; pulmonary edema.

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So let's start with the fact that firestone as a tool is already seeming improbable in itself.

Then I looked into "spontaneous endothermic reactions" looking for something that would occur on its own and cool down itself and the surrounding area. Turns out you can already see this happen in everyday items. Have you ever had an "instant cold pack"? Spontaneous endothermic reaction.

The general reaction used by the cold packs is:
NH4Cl + H2O
or
NH4NO3 + H2O (I think this one has been discontinued in packs due to the more health hazardous nature of NH4NO3 as opposed to NH4Cl).

NH4Cl's fire diamond gives its health rating as 1, "Exposure would cause irritation with only minor residual injury". Much kinder than phosphine.

So then the rub is either finding a way to get enough water into the reaction to make it cold enough, or finding another type of endothermic reaction that doesn't require so much water and would react with things readily available in the air.

So, all this to say that phosphine is nasty stuff and that endothermic reactions can be spontaneous given the right reaction conditions.

This has been your daily dose of chemistry. =)

[Kaya]

So, in conclusion:

I don't think the science of ice stone is a deciding factor in whether or not to include it in our canon.

[summerrain]

If I may make a suggestion... I really don't care about how it does what it does. I only care about what it does.

FireStone makes female dragons infirtile/semi-infirtile. What if IceStone did the same, but to a lesser extent? Like, when FireStone would make a female Clutching dragon infirtile, IceStone would make them able to Clutch less eggs than without IceStone/FireStone. Like with an Aurora. 15 good eggs max without Fire/IceStone. With IceStone, a max of 10 good eggs. With FireStone, a max of 7 good eggs.

[Kaya]

There was some talk of "how?" in the cbox and, solution to the ice stone question or no, I got curious and looked a bunch of stuff up and was pleased with what I found and wanted to share it.

On the note of mechanics, since icestone is going to continue to be included in our canon, a write on up its properties will be forthcoming.

[Jay Kitten]

If you want I can assist in the write-up. I'm good with sciencey stuff, chem and biochem included though they aren't really my best, but if you find a way you think would work to explain icestone and dragon physiology and want second opinions, you should post it up, maybe in the staff thread if you want it refined before you ask the Weyr at large about it.

I think it's an interesting concept, but...

The only question I keep coming up with isn't a how or a what but a why.

As in... Icestone is cool, but why have it? What would it's purpose be? To make a cold-as-all-shells place even colder?

And besides, this would just tempt me to make a Purple that had a 'stone addiction and liked to breathe both at the same time, which who the heck KNOWS what that'd do to a dragon, as it likely wouldn't just "cancel out" and instead combine into an even more ridiculous reaction and make him spit up lava or something equally stupendously hilarious to my currently tired mind.

Oh and might I add to this a little, just to be the "anti-ice-stone" arguer? Using icestone on another dragon would do just about nothing unless you were able to keep a concentrated blast intense enough to surround most of their body so that it would freeze them in place. Reason being? Their hides resist the insane cold of between so I doubt a little ice will bother them. *nod* And it's not like they're going to be freezing Thread, which can survive the cold of space, right? So again, to what purpose shall we use icestone except to be cool bros?

All this being said, I think it'd be really awesome to have a 'stone addicted Purple, and also no I don't mind icestone at all it'd actually be neat to me.

I just don't want it added without all this kind of thing being thought about first, ya know? Like with LifeWings we've got a clear, defined use. They are Healers with wings and awesome feathers/plot potential. Icestone seems to lack the substance behind its inception, to me.

[Shoki]

To get meta, the reason I brought it up, was for continuity's sake. Again it has been a long, long while but it was a thing previously. I didn't make it up, so I don't remember how it was supposed to be effective or anything like that. All I remember was that it was a thing, therefore I brought it up to have it be reviewed.

Not the answer you wanted I'm sure but I thought you might like this little note.

Also, space may be cold, but it doesn't conduct well. It makes sense of course, no particles to transfer heat. Oh, and humans left out in space wouldn't freeze, they run out of air first. The more you know~!

[Jay Kitten]

Interesting enough. Also, I wasn't aware that Icestone was a previous RMW non-canon canon, that's interesting too.

THE MORE I KNOW~

[Kaya]

Yes, it was in our canon previously.

And Thread can be killed by freezing. See "crack dust" and references to no Thread Fall because it's below freezing.